Ann: Have I mentioned before how I found out that my son was smoking weed? His best friend’s mother called me and asked my to come by her house one day. When I got there, she had confiscated her son’s phone and took me out on their front porch. She opened his phone and tapped on a video. Up on the screen pops my son and several other friends taking hits off a big giant bong. I burst into tears right there on her porch. I was heartbroken and terrified at the same time. Now, that might sound extreme, but having grown up with a brother who was a drug addict…I’d been fighting to keep this from happening (and had a deep fear of it happening) for years even before I brought my son home from the hospital. I felt completely defeated.

Plus, they made a freakin video of it – I mean what the hell?!

This is Ann Coleman attorney turned parent educator and mom to a kid who struggled during his teen years. You’re listening to Speaking of Teens, a twice-weekly science-informed podcast that helps you better understand, relate to, and parent your teen.

On today’s episode substance use in teens and tweens; what should you do (and what shouldn’t you do?)

To give us some insight into these issues, I spoke with Richard Capriola who worked for 4 years as a crisis counselor before joining the Menninger Clinic – one of the most revered psychiatric hospitals in the US.

Richard spent the next 11 years working with adolescents and adults, providing assessments and individual and group counseling for patients diagnosed with substance use disorders.

And he’s the author of a book and workbook of the same name, The Addicted Child, a parent’s guide to adolescent substance abuse.

Ann: I think most parents of teens are concerned about their kid drinking alcohol or smoking marijuana or taking pills or even vaping. We know substance abuse is a real danger for our kids. We know it can ruin their lives and I think most of become hyper vigilant about it and do the best we can to keep them from it as long as we can. But overall it can seem that we’re fighting an uphill battle.

Richard: The studies that have been done almost every year have pointed to two variables that explain why we see the substance abuse among teenagers that we see today. And the first is availability. How available are these drugs to teenagers? And when we ask teenagers the overwhelming responses that these drugs are widely available, We know where to get them if we want them. 80% of, uh, high school seniors will tell us that if they wanna get marijuana, they know where to do it. It's no big deal. 80% of them will tell us they know where to get alcohol, and that's no big deal. So these drugs are widely available out there on the street, and these teenagers know it. The second variable is, Harmfulness, do these teenagers see these substances as harmful? And overwhelmingly the answer is no. So when you put together the fact that these drugs are widely available, and teenagers know [00:02:00] it, and they don't think they're very harmful, it sets up a perfect and environment for the adolescent substance abuse that we're seeing out there today.

Ann:  The other part of this substance use equation, which Richard mentions in his book, is neurobiology.

The adolescent brain’s reward system is extremely revved up and raring to go and finds pleasurable or rewarding things really, really pleasurable and rewarding – I talk about all the different ramifications of this in episode 4 so be sure and go back and have a listen.

Without getting too technical, when any of us is exposed to something pleasurable or rewarding, the brain increases its release of the neurotransmitter dopamine in certain neural circuits flowing between specific structures in the brain called the reward system, which reinforces this experience and cause us to want to do it over and over again.

And we could be talking about almost any sort of “pleasurable or rewarding experience” that activates this reward system - from eating sugary foods to being the center of attention. But here, of course, we’re talking about using substances like alcohol, drugs, nicotine…

The problem is that beginning with puberty, there’s a huge increase in the amount of dopamine circulating in the prefrontal cortex which causes the adolescent brain to be super sensitive to “potentially rewarding stimuli” so that these experiences feel even more rewarding than they did in childhood and (thanks to a later decrease in dopamine in the prefrontal cortex) much more rewarding than those same things will feel in adulthood. So, they want to do these things again to feel that super rewarding feeling again.

This spike in reward system activity during adolescence leads teens and tweens to seek out newer, more exciting, stimulating, rewarding activities - some experts refer to as sensation seeking. And this type of behavior usually hits hard right when puberty begins (depending on your child somewhere between 9 and 12) and generally peaks between the ages of 13 and 16.

Now kids can have these rewarding feelings from positive things like sports, being in school plays, making good grades – but they can also get this pleasure from things like sex, substances, driving fast, jumping off the pool house into the pool in front of all their friends – the reward system is why kids do the crazy things they do. It’s why adults have come to the incorrect conclusion that teens don’t think about consequences and have a feeling of invincibility. Neither of which are true, and have been disproven scientifically. The bottom line is simply that this reward system is so strong that many kids can’t overcome it.

And the reason why they have such a hard time fighting it is also the reason they can develop a substance use disorder much easier than adults.

Richard: the message to parents is that the adolescent brain is in the process of maturing and developing. It doesn't become fully developed until around age 24 or 25.

So we need to protect that developing brain because it is, it is forming those connections and, and, and developing those areas of the brain that will be so critical for that child in adulthood. The part of the brain that is responsible for the more [00:03:00] higher order reasoning and thinking through, that's, that's the prefrontal cortex of the brain.

Um, that is the last part of the brain to get developed around 24, 25. So these impulse control. Uh, mechanisms, the decision to weigh pros and cons and make better decisions. These are all in the process of developing and maturing in the child, which means they're not fully developed yet, which makes that child, uh, more vulnerable to be captured by alcohol or drugs once they start experimenting with those substances.

So, uh, parents need to understand that it's very important that they do all that they can to protect that child's developing brain. It does make them more vulnerable to substance use.

Ann:  You see the prefrontal cortex is going through a process of strengthening and pruning the billions of extra synapses that were formed just before puberty. The Synapses are points of connection between brain cells and it’s how different parts of the brain communicate with each other and how the brain communicates with the rest of the body.

The synapses that are used most by an adolescent will be made stronger and those not being used, will be pruned away.

Which means that the more a teen does something, the more engrained in their brain that thing becomes and the harder it is to unlearn that thing later. And if they don’t learn certain things now, they’ll have a harder time learning those things later. These “things” could be doing drugs or learning a foreign language and everything in between. This is why adolescence is a great time to learn new things academically and socially and also why it’s a horrible time to experiment with addictive substances. The risk of not being able to unlearn the bad behavior can be devastating.

The side affect of all this pruning and strengthening is that it makes the prefrontal cortex less capable of fully functioning. And it’s functions are many. The prefrontal cortex controls the brain’s executive functions – it’s main thinking skills. Things like self-control, making good decisions, focus, planning ahead – most of the good stuff kids need to stay out of trouble and safe. It’s really bad timing when you have the reward system raging and wanting to do all the crazy, fun, stimulating, rewarding things!

But it’s not just you that needs to understand what’s going on in that teenage brain of theirs – they need to understand too! As a matter of fact, Richard believes it’s about the only thing that might work to keep your teen from using drugs, alcohol, nicotine and the like.

Richard: The, the thing that I would, that I talk about to parents also is, um, with the teenagers that I worked with, it, it didn't do me any good to tell them that the drugs were illegal. They already knew that they didn't care about it. Yep. Um, it didn't do me any good to tell 'em that the drugs were dangerous because they didn't believe it.

Mm-hmm. It didn't do me any good to tell 'em that if they continued to use their grades might decline. They might drop outta school, they might not get to college, they might not [00:39:00] get a job cuz they didn't believe any of that. So what did work? What did work with them? What I found worked with them was a neuroscience approach because these kids.

Were very curious about their brain. They wanted to learn about the brain, they wanted to know about the brain. And in my book I have a couple of photographs. One shows the a picture of the brain and what the different areas of the brain are responsible for. And then I have another picture that shows where marijuana attaches itself in the brain.

And these kids could instantly, right away, they could see how marijuana was working in their brain. And it was really, uh, a learning experience for them because they could see that these drugs were affecting their brain. Wow. And that had an impact that they were interested in. Me telling 'em it was illegal didn't matter.

Right. Right. They didn't care. But when I could show [00:40:00] them and help them learn about the importance of their brain and protect. Their brain and how these drugs work in the brain that captured their attention. And I would say that that's a process that can begin very early in a child's age. Yeah, I would say if you have an elementary child, uh, a child in, in, in the elementary grades, don't talk to 'em about drugs.

Talk to them about the brain and teach them about the importance of the brain and pro. Protecting their brain and teach them about that through the elementary years. Um, I wish the schools would do that, but parents can do it. And then as they get into junior high and high school, now that they understand the importance of the brain and what it does, then you can start to talk to them about how drugs work in the brain.

And if you take that approach, you're more likely to have a positive impact on the child and capture their attention.

Ann:  So, what are parents supposed to do about this? How can we protect our kids? What should we do, what shouldn’t we do?

Richard: I would sit down with families, uh, when I was working at Menninger Clinic and I would go through their child's history of using substances, what substances they'd been using, how often and how young did they start, and give them a dia.

Diagnosis of a substance use disorder. And, and the parents would look across at me and they would [00:07:00] say, I had no idea this was going on. Wow. Or if they did suspect their child was using a substance, they would say, I sort of knew something was going on, but I didn't think it was this bad. And, and these are good parents.

These are very good parents doing the best job they can. They missed the warning signs because nobody told them what to look for. And, and that's, One of the reasons why I wrote my book, I wanted parents to know what the warning signs are. It's like everything else, many other things. If we know what the warning signs are, we know what to look for and we're more likely to catch a problem.

At the earlier stages, many of these parents didn't know what the warning signs are. They missed them, and, and the problem grew to where it, where it became a crisis and they had to intervene.

Ann:  This is so very true. I certainly missed the signs with my son. He moved schools in the 9^th grade and had a new group of friends, one of whom lived right around the corner and had a great basketball court in the back yard. Well, my son and several of their friends would get together in the afternoons after school for a while and play basketball. Every day he’d come home starving and practically empty the pantry. He’s a growing boy and had just expended a lot of energy so yeah, that made total since. And some days he’d be so silly and happy, and I thought, wow, this is great, he’s not as stressed as he seemed last year in 8^th grade at his other school. But I noticed his eyes would seem red and watery and when I asked him about it a few times he blamed his friend’s cat – he’s allergic. In the back of my mind, I know I had my suspicions because I would regularly drive by this kid’s house and check to see if I saw them playing basketball and if I didn’t see them, I’d jump out of the car, walk over and yell for my son and make up some story about what I needed, just to see what they were doing. They were always in the backyard near the basketball court with their basketball, looking sweaty and tired. What I didn’t know until the end f that school year was that they had a whole stash of marijuana and smoking paraphernalia hidden in the bamboo next to their backyard. So, should I have paid more attention to those subtle hints and changes in him?

Richard: As a general rule, what I say to parents is, Pay attention to the changes that you see in your child. You know your child better than anyone, right? So pay attention to the changes that you see. Uh, don't assume that they're just normal adolescent acting out behaviors. They may very well be that, but they might also be a sign that there's something else going on [00:09:00] underneath the surface that you should be aware of.

Or, or, or take a look at. And some examples would be a child whose grades are starting to decline. Uh, a child who is getting into disciplinary problems at school, uh, or with law enforcement. Uh, a child who used to participate in sports no longer shows an interest in wanting to participate in sports or extracurricular activities.

A child who used to introduce you to their friends, you knew who their friends were. May have even known who some of their family members were now becomes very secretive of who their friends are and becomes very secretive of where they've been and what they've been doing. And then obviously if you find any drug paraphernalia around the house, any strange odors from their rooms, uh, these are all signs that, uh, should prompt you as a parent to dig a little bit deeper into what's going on.

Ann:  I believe for me at least, part of the problem is sort of a willful blindness to what’s happening right in front of your face. Maybe you have this little sneaking suspicion but you tend to ignore it because you know you’ve talked to your kid about drugs and alcohol and nicotine and the dangers and have been thoroughly convinced that there’s no way they’d ever do this – they’d never even try it – they’ve promised you since they were little. So you rationalize their behavior or push it aside because you just can’t face it.

Richard: Too many parents have the attitude and the belief that this can't happen to my child.

This happens to other children, and my message to them is that's a very dangerous, uh, attitude to have. That's a very dangerous thing to to think because no child. No child is totally protected. They're all vulnerable to being captured by alcohol or drugs. It doesn't matter where you live. Urban, suburban, rural area.

[00:20:00] It doesn't matter what your level of income is. It doesn't matter what church you go to if you attend church, and it doesn't matter, you know, whether you send your child to a private school or a public school. All children are subject to being captured. By alcohol or drugs. There is no totally protected child.

There's protective environments, but no child is totally protected. And I think many parents have the, have the thought, well, this won't happen to my child, this happens to other children. Um, or they're just too afraid of this issue to become, you know, more knowledgeable about it, to learn the warning signs and feel better prepared to deal with it in the event that it, that it happens.

Richard: don't become paranoid about this issue.

It can be a very scary topic for parents and rightly [00:42:00] so, but don't become paranoid about it. And don't avoid it. You want to become educated. You want to know as much as you can. You want to know what the warning signs are. You want to know what. To do if you need to intervene. You, you just wanna feel better prepared to deal with this issue.

If you have to, you hope you never do, but, but, but as a parent, you wanna feel more confident, better prepared, that if you have to deal with this issue, you know what to look for. You know how to intervene and you know what the next steps are. And I think that will help you. I hope that will help you as a parent feel a little.

Less paranoid and afraid and, and more confident about this issue. And, and that may make all the difference in the

 

Ann:  Ah. Fear. Paranoia. Yep, that will do it. My brother had been a drug addict, I’d spent the first 13 or 14 years of my son’s life trying to do everything in my power to make sure that didn’t happen to him. I was terrified of it happening to him and now that I think about it – paranoia fits as well. And I was convinced I’d been successful – it was just not going to happen. But that fear can keep us from educating ourselves and being prepared to deal with what could happen – what we hope won’t happen. But wishing and praying and hoping won’t help us help our kids. Knowledge, however, can play a huge role. As Richard says, you know your child best. You know their personality, their habits and in many cases, you’ll see the signs right in front of your face.

 

But whether you see the warning signs early on or wait until they slap you in the face before addressing the issue, Richard pointed out in our discussion that if a teen ends up needing treatment for a substance use disorder, the family has often been in crisis mode for months – parents trying to do everything they can to manage the situation and get it under control. And things usually become so utterly dysfunctional that communication is just completely eroded.

Richard: and the family unfortunately has gotten. Gotten into a position where, um, they need to seek, uh, some type of emergency treatment or admission, uh, for their child. I worked at Menninger Clinic in Houston, Texas, which is a large psychiatric hospital that serves both adolescents and adults and many of the adolescents, uh, that were coming into treatment.

It was a crisis situation for the family. The family had gotten to the point where they knew that they need to hus. They needed to hospitalize their child because it was becoming very life-threatening for that child. Um, and, and in many cases, um, it's, it's while the focus is on the child, we often forget that many times it's the family needs treatment as well.

Yeah. It's not just the child, the entire family needs. Treatment and deserves to have treatment too because oftentimes the family system has become dysfunctional and they [00:06:00] need help to correct that balance.

Ann:  How is it that the entire family can fall apart in this way when presented with a teen using substances? For many it can go back to the point at which you first discover them using substances and how you respond in that moment. Your response can literally determine the trajectory of their use, your relationship and the level of conflict and turmoil in your home.

 

As Richard points out in his book, once a substance like drugs or alcohol gets a firm hold on your child, you’ll see behaviors that don’t align with their usual moody teenager persona  – they’ll be out of character and off the charts. They’re likely to have what I called, “rages” – angry outbursts sometime accompanied with violence, property destruction. They’ll be extremely defensive about their behavior and there will be lots of rebellion. But you have the potential to prevent it from getting that far if you handle it the right way.

Richard: I think the first thing you should do is have a discussion with your child. And, and by that I mean, don't accuse the child of doing anything wrong.

Don't threaten or punish the child. You, you wanna come at this discussion with an inquiring point of view. In other words, I, I'm seeing these signs and I'm, [00:11:00] and, and they concern me. Can you help me understand why I'm concerned? I suspect you might be smoking marijuana and I'm. And I'm frightened by that.

Can you help me understand why I, why I'm concerned about that? Mm-hmm. Now, that's, that's likely to be a discussion that's going to go one of two ways. Uh, the child's either gonna blow up and get angry and defensive, uh, or it might go the other way and you learn some things. But regardless of how those first conversations go, where you're expressing.

Your observations and your concerns and inviting the child to give you, uh, some type of information.

Ann:  So, did you hear that; don’t threaten – don’t punish, don’t go nuts and take away their phone, ground them for life, take the keys and stop their allowance. Be very careful here, be aware of your own emotions and where those feelings are coming from (fear anger sadness, whatever it is) and get a grip on them immediately.

First of all, you have to tell yourself it isn’t the end of the world. Your child’s future is not doomed. They didn’t do this to you. Remember their brain is wired to cause them to do risky things, experiment with life – they are not purposefully defying you or doing it because they’re bad. They’ve made a choice and you need to try and figure out what happened. So, ask them. What happened? No judgment. No attitude or tone or anger in your voice. This is your child you’re talking to, and you want to talk to them with empathy in your voice, you want them to understand that you are coming to this from a place of love and support. Not fear or anger or disappointment or disgust.

If you approach them with kindness and respect, you’re more likely to have a good conversation, learn what you need to know and help them brainstorm a plan to avoid doing it again (whether that’s avoiding a certain person or place or coming up with a signal to be picked up from a party – brainstorm and help them figure something out). You may also learn what we’ll discuss shortly – that anxiety, depression, trauma or some other mental health disorder is playing into their use.

You can also discuss and try to agree on what the consequences should be if they do it again. You can get creative but remember that they should be logical and reasonable in scope. Go back and listen to episodes 16 and 22 for more on collaboration and consequences.

Doing all of this is much, much more likely if you have a strong connection with your teen, if you understand how their brain works and how it impacts their thoughts, behavior and emotions, if you can regulate your own emotions, if you understand how to help them regulate their emotions and if you understand how to discipline them without creating conflict. I’ll link to other podcast episodes and specific free parenting guides in the show notes.

 

So, should you be concerned if you know your teen is casually using substances or drinking alcohol? Richard says yes.

Richard: Well, I think it is something you need to be concerned about. Uh, I think it's something that you need to intervene with, uh, because, uh, the, the, the danger of, of avoiding it or the danger of saying it's, it's not an, it's not a problem, uh, runs the risk of it eventually becoming a problem. Uh, you know, These things don't start out [00:26:00] with a child obsessively smoking marijuana.

Yeah. It starts out with them casually using it every once in a while, and then it builds up to more frequent use, and then it goes to excessive use. So once you learn that your child has experimented with the subject, Substance, then I think you, you need to intervene. Cause you, you don't want this to get out of control and, and it can, and you don't want to leave the perception that it's okay, you know?

Yeah. That, that moderate use or just using every once in a while is okay. I'll look, I'll look the other way on that. Right. That sends a, that sends a bad message to that child too. So my advice is, if, if you learn about it, you, you need to, you need to act on it right away.

Ann:  Richard also points out that the marijuana from back in 1960s Woodstock era – is not today’s weed – not by a long shot.

Richard: It, uh, back in those days the THC content was maybe 2% and 3%, but the way marijuana is grown today, it could be in the 40, 50, 60% concentration. So yeah, the marijuana that's out there now is a lot more powerful than the marijuana that was out there. There when the parents or grandparents might have been smoking the drug.

Yeah. [00:28:00] Which makes it much more addictive, makes it much more damaging to the brain and uh, and, and, and just much more powerful.

15e The average THC content (the stuff that makes you high) in cannabis flower – the leafy part – back in the late 1990s it was around 4-5% and has been inching up ever since. Right now the average THC in the flower is somewhere around 17% (depending on who you ask) But for the concentrates, the wax – that nasty stuff – it’s been recorded up to 95% THC.

Ann: So, I asked Richard about what he thinks of something I see parents talk about quite often (and it’s something I once tried myself) – at home drug testing for teens. Should parents consider drug testing and issuing some sort of consequences for kids testing positive?

Richard: I, I think that's more of a, of a reassurance for parents. Um, you know, some kids are clever enough to know how to get around the test.

Uh, the other thing that parents need to be aware of if they're using the test is they're not foolproof. Uh, an example that I would give you is that the cutoff for marijuana is 50 nanograms. So you have to have in your system 50 or more. Nanograms to get a positive test. So if your child's at 49 nanograms smoking marijuana and they're at 49 nanograms, the test is gonna be negative.

Negative. And you're gonna think, oh, the kid's, the kid's not using marijuana. This is great. No, the kid's using marijuana, just not enough to trigger a positive test. So they're not foolproof, uh, they're not perfect. Um, [00:38:00] but I think parents do this more to reassure themselves than they do as an assurance that the kid's not using a substance.

Ann:  While some kids may not take offense to being drug tested and may comply 100% and give you a result you can trust…I can tell you based on my own past experience and what I know now from my years of study, that drug testing your teenager is a terrible idea. And actually, the American Academy of Pediatrics agrees.

First, as Richard points out, there are so many variables involved in these instant tests that you cannot be sure of the result – negative or positive. As a matter of fact, having worked in the legal side of the clinical laboratory industry for years, I can tell you that a positive instant test (those done with the cup where you see the indicator line right there) – they’re not even considered a true positive without a confirmatory test done by sending off the urine sample to a real lab. And even as for a negative, labs have a way of testing the sample to see if it has in any way been tampered with in some way – by say, drinking tons of water before the test or actually having an apparatus down their pants to squirt water into the cup.

That’s why a lot of real random drug tests are done under observation – meaning, watching the pee come out of the place it comes out. Are you willing to do that to your child?

Second, if you want to quickly degrade the relationship and communication with your teenager, subjecting them to random drug testing like they’re a criminal under your watch, is usually a sure way to do it. This is especially true if you just decide to do it to keep them away from drugs before they ever give you a reason to believe they’ve tried them. But whether you’ve caught them red handed or not, your kid will resent you, they will feel invaded, distrusted and even unloved. Even if you have a reason not to trust them, drug testing is not the answer here.

So, you should talk, brainstorm, discuss consequences but do not drug test.

 

But what really constitutes an official substance use disorder? And what do professionals mean when they categorize the disorder into mild, moderate, or severe? These terms all sound scary and none of it feels good when you hear someone say it about your child.

Richard: Well, when we look at mild, moderate, or severe, what we're doing is we're looking at the types of consequences that that substance has had upon that person's life, whether it's an adult or or an adolescent, and how, how disruptive it has become to the person's life.

What are the consequences of, of their use? Um, [00:23:00] how has it affected their ability to function? Um, And as we move from mild to moderate to severe, the consequences become more severe and more frequent and more disruptive, so that by the time an individual, typically an adult has gotten to the severe category, the consequences have become catastrophic.

You know, they might have lost a job, they might have lost a family, they might have been incarcerated. And we've noticed also that the drug has changed the brain in such a way that they have. Developed a tolerance to the substance. So they need more and more and more of the substance to get the high that they're seeking.

We don't see that so much in the mild or even the moderate category, but when a person becomes in the severe category, uh, they've almost gotten to the point where they're taking the substance not to get high anymore. But to avoid withdrawal symptoms. Yeah. So as you move from mild to moderate to severe, the [00:24:00] consequences become more catastrophic.

The effect on the brain becomes more, more damaging and, and the and, and it, and the tolerance starts to develop so that the person needs more and more and more of the substance. I did not see a lot of severe cases. In the adolescent population. I think most adolescents tend to be in the mild to moderate category, but if you don't intervene and you don't get treatment, there is the risk that that could eventually escalate into adulthood and then into a severe category.

So, you want to catch these, these things as early as possible and intervene as early as possible.

 

Ann: So, beyond discussions and consequences, what should we do if we’re worried about our child’s substance use or why they’re using?

Richard: Uh, if you still are concerned as a parent, you should move to the next step, which is to get the assessments done that I recommend in my book so that you can get. Professionals to, uh, do an assessment for you, uh, an addictions assessment so that you know, uh, if there is a diagnosable substance use disorder, uh, a psychological assessment to see if there's an underlying [00:12:00] emotional issue that your child might be using a substance to medicate. And if there is a diagnosis, a uh, recommendation for a treatment plan.

Ann:  Who performs these assessments, where do you even start?

Richard: Yeah, I would say the first person that you wanna. Consider having a discussion with will be the school counselor, uh, the school psychologist or the school social worker. And many of them are, are, are very capable in, in qualified to do some of these assessments. So I would have a discussion first with the school counselor, school psychologist, or school social worker.

If they're not able or willing to do the assessments. Uh, they, they. In many cases, we'll be able to refer you to professionals in the community that can get these assessments done. The important thing is to get the assessments done, uh, whether by a school counselor or or psychologist or social worker or somebody in the community, um, so that you can get a professional assessment done and, and know what you're dealing with and what the recommendations are for treatment, if there are any.

 

 

Ann: And as Richard points out in his book, your primary care physician is also a great place to start for a referral.

You can check out Richard Capriola’s book, The Addicted Child, A Parents Guide to Adolescent Substance Abuse at help the addicted child.com, where you can also learn more about Richard, read reviews and endorsements and a sample of the book. I’ll also have the link to purchase on Amazon all in the episode description where you’re listening.

 

That’s it for Speaking of Teens today. Thank you so much for being here – I really appreciate it and if you got something out of this episode, please consider sharing it with a few parents or people who work with parents or teens. You can find the link to the show notes in the episode description in your app.

Speaking of Teens is sponsored by neurogility.com, where I help parents build stronger relationships and decrease conflict with their teens.

Our producer and editor is Steve Coleman; researched, written, and hosted by me, Ann Coleman.